Ep. 16 -Postpartum Psychosis, Healing, & Dance Therapy With Shawna Mox
EPISODE 16-
Postpartum Psychosis, Healing, & Dance Therapy With Shawna Mox (Part 2 Of Our Conversation)
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In this episode, we're diving into Shawna's amazing journey—from her work with Bombooty to her personal experience with postpartum psychosis.
Shawna's heart-opening story about her battle with postpartum psychosis is nothing short of inspiring. It's a topic that's rarely talked about, and her courage in sharing about it is a shining light for anyone facing similar challenges.
When you feel like you're the only one facing a difficult situation, the emotional burden can be overwhelming. Shawna's story reminds us that we're never truly alone on our path.
We'll explore Shawna's coping strategies, including the concept of 'surrender,' which played a crucial role in her healing process. She shares how her identity and journey through motherhood were shaped by her experiences.
But that's not all—we also delve into the transformative power of movement and music in Shawna's healing process. Dance played a significant role in reawakening parts of herself that had been closed off, contributing immensely to her recovery.
This episode is a heartfelt, enlightening conversation that I believe you'll find incredibly valuable. So tune in to gain insights into the power of resilience, healing, and the importance of not walking your journey alone.
Say hi to Shawna on Instagram: @Shawna Mox and check out her website: Bombooty.com. You can also find more info about her instructor training and upcoming retreat there.
Say hello to Mrs. Hard on Instagram: @Mrs.Hard_TimesNoMore or on
Facebook: Mrs. Hard
Let me know what you think of this episode!
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Full Transcript:
Hey everyone, welcome back to part two of my conversation with Shawna Mox. If you haven't listened to the previous episode, I highly recommend that you check it out. But to catch you up, Shawna is a life coach and creator of Bombooty. She helps women feel good in their bodies and reconnect with themselves through what I call dance party therapy. Now in this episode, Shawna bravely shares about her journey through postpartum psychosis. I had never heard about postpartum psychosis before I met Shawna In our discussion. She sheds light on the challenging experiences that she went through and she offers hope to those going through postpartum psychosis or really any life challenge because when you feel like you are the only one experiencing something hard in life, it makes your emotional burden so much greater. She has definitely experienced some hard times and she has a lot of wisdom to share, so, without further ado, let's get into today's episode. Hi, I'm Allessanda Tolomei-Hard, aka Mrs. Hard, and this is Hard Times no More, a podcast for people who are tired of struggling with boundaries, people-pleasing and relationship problems. I have overcome some hard times. Within three years, I stopped drinking, my mom died of cancer and my house burnt down in a California wildfire, and those are just the highlights. I have a lot of reasons to be miserable, but I'm not. The truth is, life was more challenging before these events happened. If you are tired of waiting for your circumstances to change to find happiness and peace of mind, you are in the right place. Join me as I share the tools I use and love to transform challenges into assets and interview others about their relationship journeys. Together, let's learn how to have a happy life full of healthy, meaningful relationships and say goodbye to hard times for good. I would love for you to share a little bit about your postpartum experience. And was bomb booty a part of your life before your postpartum experience?
Speaker 2: 2:11
So I've been doing some form of feminine based dance movement practice since 2015. So this has been heavily integrated into my life and I've had a couple of significant traumatic chapters, I will say, the most recent of which was my postpartum experience. I suffered from postpartum psychosis after the birth of my son in 2021. So, for those of you who are not familiar, psychosis is the detachment of reality. It usually comes with mania. So if you haven't ever experienced mania, mania is like I. Honestly the best way to describe it is like. Not that I know what being on meth feels like, but I imagine it's like being on meth because you feel super human, you feel super important and the surge of actual energy that you have is like undescribable. It seems to me like that's what it would feel like to be on meth, and it usually comes with paranoid thoughts. For me, it presented as like for example, I thought that my dad was part of the FBI and he had been hiding that our whole life. I thought my mom was possibly CIA intelligence. I thought I was being followed. So there was a lot of stuff that showed up that now that I'm not in that state, I can be like okay, that was the psychosis that had me believe these things and for me, actually, the best framework to understand what occurred is actually a spiritual one, where I feel like it was like a spiritual crisis or, like some communities will call it, a tower moment or a lightning bolt moment, or also, if you've ever heard of, like the dark night of the soul.
Speaker 1: 4:21
Yeah, like it was like that type of experience.
Speaker 2: 4:24
So there was also a lot of spiritual things that came through that I'll sit and think about them now and I'm like that was. That was pertinent information for me. So it's it's not like it's totally all just cuckoo bananas and it's. You know, it's not like a black and white situation where it's just like oh, I was just crazy for a little while Like it's very like layered. So I gave birth to my son. I had a home birth, unmedicated home birth, and it was the most powerful experience of my life, certainly the most powerful spiritual experience of my life. I had chosen a home birth because a long time ago I watched that Ricky Lake documentary, the Business of being Born, and they really looked at the like birthing industry and what women have been through, what we continue to go through, and so I'm already like this person. I'm not a huge fan of hospitals in general. I really like looking at like a holistic approach to healthcare. I'm not I'm not so far swung that I think like Western medicine or allopathic medicine has no place. I do. I do think there's, like I said, it's not a black and white situation, but for me I always approach things from like mind, body, spirit and the way. And so, all that being said, I have this powerful experience, and then I am like just reeling about how many women have traumatic birthing experiences in hospital setting that are unnecessary. You know, birth is not necessarily a medical situation, but we've medicalized it and then that's what we've seen, that's what we know, that's what's the norm, and so it kind of like shook me in a big way. So that was one factor of what was going on. The other factor is I am currently 37 years old and so I was like 35 when my son was born. I found out later that my hormone levels were like severely out of balance, I think like normal estrogen levels at that time after giving birth, and maybe just like normal. Like the normal levels are like 50 to 60, whatever the measurement is. Mine was like at 212, like 212. And then the progesterone, which is the hormone that's supposed to like balance everything out and like it's like the chill hormone, like normal levels are set between like 10 and 15, and mine were at 0.3 or something like that. So there was like this huge hormonal discrepancy. I did meet with a hormone specialist at one point and she was like she was like, yeah, so estrogen is the thing that makes like crazy ladies do crazy things, and a lot of times what you're experiencing in this hormone discrepancy will get misdiagnosed as a mental health disorder instead of looking at the roots of the hormone. So I just want to share that that was also a factor. The other factor is I've actually experienced psychosis one other time in my life. Really, I didn't know postpartum psychosis was a thing until it was happening to me.
Speaker 1: 8:00
Yeah, I'd never heard about it until I met you.
Speaker 2: 8:03
Yeah, and this is why I want to talk about it, and I'm so grateful that you wanted to highlight this part of my life, because I think in general we don't have enough conversation about the postpartum experience. And then, like the fact that I didn't even know it was a thing and I'm at a high risk for it because I have experienced psychosis one other time and that was also very spiritually layered and trauma. It was like a trauma induced psychosis, so like my brain can go there, it's gone there, right, so I didn't pathway, it has that pathway and it also so like the risk factor put me at like I don't even know. It was like something like four times more likely than just like a regular person. And I will also say that y'all, you all have heard about postpartum psychosis but maybe you don't know Because it's the, those stories. There was like a recent one of the. She was like a delivery nurse and the father came home and she had killed her three kids and then herself. Wow, yeah, that was postpartum psychosis. That's postpartum psychosis, so that I mean it is the most severe postpartum experience that somebody can have. And thankfully, like I didn't have any thoughts or beliefs that were telling me to hurt my son or hurt myself, but I had. I did have beliefs that right now, sitting today, I was like, oh yeah, that was like cuckoo bananas, but I believed them in that moment. So I feel like so much empathy for the women that experienced this and then do these really gnarly things, because I know that that's not what they actually want to do. Like well, what I've heard is there's a lot of motifs around like you know, like oh, I birthed the anti Christ and so in order to save humanity, I must kill my child because it's the devil in human form, like that kind of stuff. And like I certainly had, I had some like Jesus things come in. I mean that's a whole other freaking saga of like the different messages that came through and I'm always curious because there's like these repeated ones that show up for like a lot of people's psychosis experiences. But anyway, at like seven weeks postpartum, I think I was dancing with like hypomania so that's another way that I explain it and describe it is like like surges of adrenaline and certainly what was triggering things for me was like like my fight or flight response kept getting tripped up. So, like you know, it was like, oh my God, big pharma is like out to kill us and make money off of it and so like that would get tripped up. And then you know it's like now I'm my mom, how do I parent in a world that's like this? That would trip me up and and just like the magnitude of the birthing industry and how many women are being traumatized, and like for my whole life I, I, I'm here for women, like I'm freaking here for women and like lifetimes I've been here for women is is really how it feels. So I was like getting it was like I was triggering that fight or flight urgency response in my system. So it's kind of like just flooding my system with adrenaline and it feels like it got to a point where it just like caught fire, like my brain caught on fire, and it was just like out of control, right, and like there was no stopping this adrenaline output. And so, you know, I started telling, like I started saying things like to my part my husband at the time I was like, oh, I can't talk to you because, like, the FBI is listening to us, you know, and he was like what are you talking about? Like, and then he was getting freaked out and then his fear response was like very hard and controlling. I mean, just part of me is like I don't, I love freedom and I don't want to be controlled by anybody. And then, like that, with like this mania, energy and adrenaline and also this like I'm a superhero kind of thing that shows up when I was in that state, you know. So then there was like that kind of tension starting to build between me and my ex-husband. Now, anyway, my family got freaked out because they were around when I went through the other time that I went through this and so everybody was triggered up. Everybody was freaked out because now there's a baby involved, right, and I was nursing and I didn't want to be away from my baby. Another way it presented for me and this is important for, like anybody who is supporting a new mom, like this is something to look out for. The way it presented to me was I was like incessantly writing stuff down, because part of what I call like it's actually like mania, magic almost is like you feel like you're directly linked to source, and so I was getting like all these downloads but they were coming in so fast and I was like I have to capture it or else it's going to go away. So like again, that urgency was like really ruling me, like it wouldn't let me sleep, basically. So like the lack of sleep really is the thing. Like as soon as I got sleep it was like I was back on earth, and then it would like kind of start hyping up again. And then as soon as I got sleep, I was like back, you know, I was back down. So then I had, you know, we ended up like staying at my folks place. I think it was like Saturday night, a Saturday night, and oh no, let me just back up. So the timeline was I started feeling things like Friday where I was like huh, this kind of feels like when this happened last time, but I was like that's not going to happen, I've got this under control, I'm way more equipped, I'm a mom Like I was kind of like in denial about it, and then I don't think I slept Friday night. And so then Saturday I just was like full of energy, but I also was like things started just moving really fast, like my phone would be too slow, and it was like getting tripped up and like you know, just like these little things and it was I kind of felt like. Like I was like is something fucking with me, you know, like it's like a spirit fucking with me is kind of how it felt. One of the nights we ended up staying at my folks house and I woke up the next morning and I was like I need to go to the beach. I need to go to the beach right now. I need to get my, I need to run around naked on the beach and like, get in the water. And we have a nude beach like a half an hour away from us. So that's what I was like take me to Pirates Cove so that I can do this. And my you know, my mom was all freaked out. She the way she shows up is very controlling also when she gets freaked out. And so she was like, well, you know, last time you went through this acupuncture was the thing that really helped. So can we get you into the acupuncturist today? And I was like I guess, if that's what's gonna get me to the beach, right, I kind of like. But I was like way too wild at this point. I like went into the acupuncture office. I let them put a bunch of needles in me and then I like I don't even know Time is a weird thing when you're in mania. So I like it might've been 30 seconds, it might've been five minutes, it felt like forever. I was like it's not working and I like pulled them all out, like just like threw them on the floor and like I was like let's go, I need to go to the beach. And so then like it was just like a bunch of chaos and I wasn't getting to the beach was the point. And so we we get back to my house. I'm actually like not a very far walk away from the ocean from where I was living, but it's like across the embarkadero, which is like a busy, you know kind of thing here in our town. It's where all the tourists go. And I was at my house and I was just like feeling untouchable and also needing to be naked, and so I like took off all my clothes. I was like fuck you guys, I'm going to the ocean. And I like left my house. You know, they, my mom had my son at this point and I just like ran my naked booty across the embarkadero and I jumped in the water and I was like immediately cooled, cooled down. Like my spirit was cooled down. Obviously, my, my body was cooled down, but like I really do believe in like the power of salt and like the grounding and also I'm a surfer, so like I have like a very deep relationship with the ocean anyway, and so I like got out. I was super chill. My dad had caught up to me at this point. It was like right next to the Harbor Patrol office and like I'm friends with all those people, so like one of the guys that I know, that I've grown up with, I was like, oh hey, marcos, what's up? They like walked me back to my house I'm still naked, by the way. I walked me back to my house and I was just like ready to chill with my baby and the cops were there and they were like you know, I was just like oh, I live here, I'm fine, everything's fine, I just need to go in my house and chill with my kid and like we're good. And they were like no, we need to talk to you. You know, the ambulance was there for like a medical eval and I was like I don't need to talk to you. You know, like I also like don't really like authority. You know that's probably not a big surprise from anybody that's listening and then somebody grabbed me, like one of the cops grabbed me and as soon as they put hands on me I freaked out. And another pertinent piece of information is I used to train jiu-jitsu, like at a competitive level, and so I know how to like maneuver my body to not be in holds. And so it like took them five cops like they ended up handcuffing me and putting me in the back of the cop car and I was fighting the entire time and so then, so that's when things like really just escalated for me. At that point I didn't know. I was like all of a sudden I didn't know where my son was and I was like who has Leo? Where is he? Like? Where's my son? Where's my baby? Where's my baby? And nobody was talking to me. I'm like yelling out of the cop car like those little air holes that they have. Nobody's acknowledging me, and so that's just like frustrating me and freaking me out even more. And I guess they had decided that like I wasn't safe enough to like be evaluated there and that I needed to go to the hospital. So, anyway, they rushed me to the emergency room. I get out I'm still naked, by the way. They didn't like give me anything Not that I would have, I probably wouldn't have even cared, I mean, I wasn't caring at the moment and I get out of the cop car you know I'm still handcuffed and I'm still trying to get away and they, like I remember like six needles coming at me and them shooting me up with some sort of sedative before like I passed out. And you know I came to. I was like strapped to the gurney, like I don't know what they prison style, like one arm like twisted, kind of you know I don't know if you know they do this on purpose. So you're like less mobile, my feet are strapped down, so I'm just like the hell. And I find out that they had given they had come in while I was sedated to give me a mental health evaluation and then they decided that like they slapped me with a 5150, which means danger to self or others. And in California I don't know if this is like country wide or whatever, but in California that means that there's a mandatory 72 hour hold. So I wake up and I'm like, okay, what is it? And, like I said, I had gotten, I had I got knocked out and I had slept, and so when I came to I was like, whoa, that was wild, can I go home? Now? You know, like I was like I was really back in reality at that point and so because of my insurance, they like all the mental health facilities in network for me were actually like three and a half hours away, and so I was like transported to San Jose behavioral health and that was like a whole rigmarole. I had never been in a mental health facility before. So like the last time this happened I just got like I was hospitalized twice, but it was like a 24 hour thing and then I was able to be released. With this time I experienced something totally new, which was being in one of those facilities and anyway, it's a whole drawn out saga. I was there for a week. I came home and like that week I came home, my husband said he wanted a divorce, like that week. And so then, you know, like I was saying I was, I kept getting these like fight or flight hits, and so there was another one where I was like, oh my God, we were newly married. We had been married for like six months at this point and I was like, wait, what? Like, what do you mean? You're you want a divorce? Like we're just going through something crazy, like what. So then it was like, oh, I need to save my marriage and all of that. And so, anyway, one thing led to another. I was like I need to get away and I went with a good friend of ours, with my son, we went to Hawaii and like I was able to kind of chill out. And then, as soon as I got back from Hawaii, jonathan picked me up Jonathan's my ex-husband. He picked me up Like we had been having chats while I was away and like, hey, I think we can make this work. Part of what showed up is he was raised like super Christian and he was like you know, you need to really consider taking Jesus into your heart as you're one and only. And like I was like wait, I never lied to you about who I was. And like I think Jesus is cool and I'm down to like check out who he was, but like the whole church thing is not. It doesn't resonate with me for many reasons and but I was like I'm open to exploring that together, like you know, and it really was like whatever I need to do to save our family, I'm willing. So anyway, we were just like that was just like another layer that was up in the mix. And, yeah, he picked me up from the airport and like things just escalated in a bad way, like pretty much right away. And you know, my parents got involved and like I was like heightened again energetically and like the mania was really like big. And so I was like okay, I'm voluntarily going with the cop this time to the hospital. And then I get to the hospital and they want to shoot me up with drugs and I'm like I start, I was like no, why is this happening to me? And then I get knocked out and I wake up in another facility and that facility was down in Ventura, called Vista Del Mar, and it was horrible. At what point did somebody check your hormone level? So it was actually in between the two hospitalizations I went and saw a hormone specialist. I actually think, at the height of things, the hormone discrepancy was probably more than when I got tested, cause I was kind of leveled out like in between those two, those two experiences. So yeah, hormones are a really big deal.
Speaker 1: 25:37
And then, what was the pivotal thing that changed from you being in this state to finding a solution Like what ended up being your solution?
Speaker 2: 25:48
The way I kind of see it is like it had to run its course, like the mania energy had to run its course, and then the things that occurred while I was in the state really like exacerbated it and elongated the time that I spent like in that manic state. So those were like the. The hospitalizations were super traumatizing. So my body stayed in a fight or flight. For those times, you know, I was avoiding medication and I had pharmacists who were like, no, you need to take this medication, and like my psychiatrist were like no, you need to take this medication. And so there was like that aspect my husband threatened to leave me and then, when I was hospitalized that second time, he actually filed for separation and temporary custody of my son while I was hospitalized, and so then I was like, fuck, now I have to fight for seeing my son. Like it was a mess. So I wouldn't say that there was like a turning point, like a pivotal moment. It was more of like. You know, I got out of the hospital immediately after. I went into a deep depression and the best thing I did for myself was I was working with a therapist who I didn't love him, but he had a good relationship with the court system, and so he was kind of like, hey, once we're good, I'll write a letter of recommendation that you're fit to be a mom again. So I was like, okay, I'll just play the game. But the best thing that he said to me was like he's like Shona, how would you treat yourself if you had the flu right now? He's like my guess is you would rest, you would make sure you got good food, you would sleep like you would just take it easy on yourself, basically. And he's like consider treating yourself as if you have the flu, because depression is like a sickness in that manner. And that really helped me frame things, because I, you know, in human design I'm a generator, I'm like I'm a doer, like it's really I have high capacity, right, like even even he was like I think depression for you looks a lot different than like depression for other people. Like you're still like putting on fresh clothes every day and like able to take a shower and stuff. I was like, okay, but what that did for me, I just like lowered my personal expectations of how I need to show up for life and actually like a better metaphor for me is like imagining I got in a big car accident right. That rendered me like, yeah, I had the trauma of it, but also my body, whatever. You wouldn't expect somebody who just went through a gnarly car accident to like be functioning the same immediately. And so that kind of helped me realize like, hey, I'm in a healing period and I've actually been here before because the last psychosis also had this depression era, and that was really scary because I had never experienced like deep depression like that. And so I was like is this just the way it's gonna be now? You know that's the lie of depression, is that it like lasts forever and whenever you're going through any hardship, your brain tells you it's gonna be like this forever. Exactly exactly, and so somewhere deep in my being I knew that it wasn't going to be like this forever. But it is like this for right now. And so what I did for myself is like I was like, okay, just bare minimum everywhere, and if I get to the beach to walk my dog, that's a win for the day. Like that's it, that's all I have to do, that's all you have to do, like even if it feels shitty. You know, and I just walked that beach just like so mad at everything and like so sad at everything and so like confused about all of it. You know that lasted for like seven or eight months. You know, not only did I have probably shot adrenals and like the physical things that lead to depression, I also had a husband that left me and like was now facing single motherhood. I was like what does this even mean? I was like on the phone with lawyers and dealing with court stuff. It was just awful everywhere. But I do remember a few things that I like held on to during this period of time, one of which is something my friend told me. She was like rejection is God's protection. I was like, okay, I have to believe that that's true Right now. Yeah, the other one was I felt like God was speaking to me throughout this period of time and one of the things that I felt like God was saying to me was like hey, I know this blows right now. I know this sucks we're not gonna deny that like what you're going through is awful, but trust me, I'm clearing the way. Your pain is not purposeless. This won't last forever. Like there is another side to this. How I also think about depression now is it was like a very long integration period and for a long time, it felt like I was getting a software upgrade, but the like little spinny ball was just like stuck at 75% and so like depression literally was like I had no access to my old way of being and I didn't yet have access to the new way of being, and so I just had to like chill and, honestly, I watched so much Netflix and I watched all of Modern Family. I watched like all these like really lighthearted shows and that was the best thing I did for myself, quite frankly, like I was just like you know what it's okay to like tap out and numb out and like literally like the healing was still happening in like on a cellular level, even though it didn't feel like it felt like I was stuck and gonna be stuck forever. But I remember one morning I woke up and I like wanted to fold my laundry and like tidy up the house and I was like, oh my God, it's happening, like you know, after weeks and weeks of like F the dishes, I ain't doing that, you know.
Speaker 1: 33:00
Yeah, and that speaks so much to the feminine energy you were talking about earlier. Instead of like forcing your life to look normal or be a certain way, you surrendered and then the energy arose and it wasn't on your timeline, it was on something greater's timeline. And yeah, and it sucks to be in that in between. I've been in that in between too, in a very different way, but like where your old life doesn't work anymore and the new life hasn't started and you're like in purgatory of some sort, and it's like all right. But you can't control anything and you know anything you used in the past isn't working. They're serving you now and it is like a rock bottom. That's in my experience 100%, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2: 33:46
There was like some. So the first time I went through psychosis and depression I had like a. There was like a lot of shame involved and I'm grateful I had that experience because actually, the second time around I didn't really have that in such a big way. You know, I was already like a community leader and a business owner and I was a front woman of a band when, like that first psychosis experience happened and so I really was wrestling with like well, if I'm crazy, like can I actually build a life that I envision? Are people gonna trust me? Are people gonna listen to me? Are people gonna believe me? You know, like I had all of that and like you know, I didn't really know. I didn't really. I hadn't heard of anybody going through what I went. I didn't know what psychosis was Like. I didn't know what deep depression was really Like. I really thought that I was like going through this like super unique experience and that I was like this broken weirdo, you know. And so I'm so grateful that I had that experience, that I had already been through it, because A I knew that the depression wasn't gonna last forever, even though it still really felt like it was going to, but I was like, no, I've been here before and I've come through the other side, so and I also was like, I was like whoa, like that was like this wild thing that I went through and that actually happened to me, like it helped me not beat myself up in that sense of like I brought this on and actually, from like a cosmic level, I do feel like I signed up for all of it in this lifetime, but like you know that's different, that's different than like Extreme ownership. You know, I do trust in that, but I also, like you know, I think a lot of like spiritual development circles. They're like you manifest everything in your life and I just like can't get with that. Yeah, I can't get with that at all, because I also think like random shit happens and like other people have free will and they don't make the best decisions and you get impacted by them. Like I don't believe that we call all of that in, but I do believe that there is a lesson in everything and that we can. You know, I even get irked when people are like life isn't happening to you, it's happening for you and it's like I get what you're saying, but like to say that to a rape victim or to say that to somebody who's like family member got murdered or whatever, like I can't with that shit, yeah, but I do believe that there is opportunity for growth, expansion and learning in everything.
Speaker 1: 36:48
Yeah, I do resonate with what you said in the sense that when I've gone through some really hard things like if somebody told me like this is supposed to happen to you, like you know you brought this into your life right now like there's times that I would have punched them in the face, but like once you've gone through a lot of healing and once it's like you give yourself permission to say, like no, I'm not a victim anymore of this, and like I now have the benefits that have come through walking through the fire and through these hardships, and now I can say that like I'm grateful for what has come out the other side. But when you're in it, it's not usually the right time to hear that.
Speaker 2: 37:29
No, like I, you know, on the same, in the same line. You know the like. Everything happens for a reason. I'm like no, but you can find a reason in everything that happens. Yes, right, like, and that's on us. So that's really what I learned in a big way and I also like to share with my clients is like the choice point is around are we gonna have this thing make us bitter or better? Mm-hmm, and there's no rush, right, cause, like I also like one of the ways that I use personal development work is to like I just want to get to the other side. So I'm like can I just skip the like feeling bad part and just get to the get to the learning and to get to the lessons? So this like this whole experience was like a big lesson in not rushing the process, cause I literally could not and you know I wasn't I what? Prior to this, I was working with a life coach regularly and during this period of my life I was not working with a life coach and that was the right move for me, because I really just needed to focus on the healing and in like life coaching can support how to set up that healing and and all of that, but really life coaching is great for when you're ready to like powerfully move your life forward. And so in this, in this, and especially with like my propensity to to want to rush the process, I didn't need a structure to like move forward. I actually needed to. I needed to chill out.
Speaker 1: 39:19
Yeah, it sounds like you had to just be in the bean. Yeah, because you're a very doing person and your medicine was like the opposite of that and like learning to let go and surrender that, because it sounds like through this whole process you surrendered your identity of like who you were Absolutely, and a lot of really challenging experiences bring that on where it's like we. It causes too much pain to cling to who we used to be.
Speaker 2: 39:46
Yeah, and I mean, you know, back to the operating new operating system. I feel like all of 2022 was like like I came back online, you know, following this metaphor, but I didn't know where all the buttons were and what all the shortcuts were, and so all of 2022 was like really reestablishing foundations and, by the way, we were still like coming out of a pandemic and you know, my business was very much in-person base prior to the pandemic. So so it was like 2022 was all foundation work of, of like who am I? Who am I as a business woman? How do I operate as a business woman Now? I have like zero capacity to really bypass my own needs, which I interpret as a gift. Some people might interpret that as like, oh, I just get tired more often and I don't have the energy like I used to, which is true. But actually, what's more true is that my system is like no, we're not not sleeping this week, like I'm just gonna be a crabby biatch until you get me my sleep. You know it's like nothing else works. So I have to prioritize that. And you know, there was like, obviously, a huge adjustment in the father of my child and my ex-husband is, and I work 50-50 with our child, so I had to really like reconcile with that and part of that reconciliation of like the sadness of like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna miss half of my child's life. Like what was designed my business so that I could work on it when I don't have him and then when I'm with him, I can just be with him, and so that was a huge adjustment. And now, you know, I have so much healing I am in this place of like, wow, you know, I feel blessed that my ex-husband left me, because I mean, quite honestly, like it was a very intense experience and it was the first intense experience that like I was going through where he had to show up for me and he couldn't and he didn't, and it's like, well, I'd rather know that now, I'd rather know that now, whereas for a long time I really had a lot of anger around this whole thing happening to begin with, because I was like, oh, if it hadn't happened, then he wouldn't have left me. Da, da, da, da. But it's like that was his choice and that's the choice that he made. And no, I did not sign up for a marriage where somebody was gonna make that choice when. I really needed him to like be my man. You know, yeah, you know, I know that relationships is like a big area for you and I also love talking about relationships because I I ended up meeting my current boyfriend like February 2022. So it was like just shy of a year of all the everything happening. And when I met him, both of us have sons that are almost exactly the same age Like they're actually 13 days apart in age and you know he had gone through a lot of like an unstable relationship and then splitting up with her and, like you know, he'd gone through his own version of hell, like the first year of his son's life. And then, and obviously I went through my version and then we met each other and we were like what, what? And when we met it really felt like a reunion. Yeah, I was like, oh my God, like I've known you, like I've known you before, like my soul knows you, like this is so trippy to me and it was very, you know, I told you I feel like God has been like talking to me this whole time. And when I met Ryan, my current boyfriend, I felt like God was like gotcha bitch. I told you Like he was all workout, you know and I literally was like, well, I surrender everything because, like, I don't know shit. Like I don't know shit. Like, honestly, my job now. And it feels so great because before I felt like I was always so concerned, like am I on the path? Am I making the right move? What's the thing I need to focus on? Like what's my passion, what's my purpose? And like I just I just would spin out in this conversation like all of my 20s and early 30s and now I'm like, listen, I know the things that light me up. I know the things that I'm good at that also light me up. Like I love being on stage and I love, I love, like facilitating experiences and I love dancing and I love singing and I love performing and like all this stuff. I just need to keep showing up in those ways and then life will do the rest. You know, like I don't know who I'm gonna meet. That will open up an opportunity. You know what I mean Like and I'm like. So I have so much more trust in that now Whereas, like I think before my relationship to spirit and like doing my life was really like it's all on me to make happen. And now I'm like no spirit's my business partner, my life partner, like and I forget a lot of the times I'll still slip into like I gotta make it happen, but like if I just relax and remember that I have this relationship to spirit to tap into, I can sit in meditation and some stillness and like allow for that, the inspiration to come through and you know, it's like it feels so much, I feel so much more supported and just like trusting in the process, which is something that people say all the time but I never like, I never knew it the way that I know it now. Yeah, yeah, it's life's wild.
Speaker 1: 46:07
Yeah, it's an incredible thing to have that relationship with something greater, no matter what it is, and I was just walking with I call her my earth mama, or my mama bear. She's known me since I was in preschool and she's my best friend's mom and I was and she has had so many hardships in life like, oh my goodness, and she has such a strong faith. And my mom had so many hardships in life and she had such a strong faith and so many people that I know who've been through some really tough stuff. They come out the other side like grateful, lighter and brighter and more connected, more empathetic, more authentically themselves because of that relationship and that not needing to hold it all together and be the only one, and it creates so much fulfillment in life and it's hard to understand if you haven't experienced it, but it's. I love when people can hear stories like yours because maybe somebody listening has felt similar things to you internally or has had an externally similar experience and by hearing your story they can know that that's possible for them too. Or maybe they're going through something that doesn't feel as challenging and they're gonna hear your story and they're gonna be like, wow, like I thought things were really hard, like I think I'm okay now because Not totally.
Speaker 2: 47:37
That's definitely a thing. One of the things that I share that's landed with people is like during that depression period I really felt like, oh, all my fun credits were spent Like I guess the first half of my life was cool but like now I'm just like.
Speaker 1: 48:01
Now it's over.
Speaker 2: 48:02
Exactly and, like you know, this was my first and only son and so, like I actually see it as it's, like the initiation into motherhood period, like obviously mine was gnarly in the ways that it was gnarly, but I think everybody goes through this period of like. I think both mothers and fathers of like what does this mean now about my identity? And, like you know, it took a lot of adjustment and part of the thing that showed up was that, like all my fun credits are spent Like I'm never, Like I'm glad I had a fun like first half of my life. Now it's just totally want-want. The other thing was like I had never as a single person with no kids, I had never dated anybody with kids, and so I had a lot of like judgment around, like what did that mean for me? Like is anybody gonna want me? Like I totally. And like you know, there's a lot of narrative in our culture around like like who moms are allowed to be and how moms are allowed to be, and like all kinds of stuff. And like I just felt I was like am I just like this washed up, like used up woman? You know, like all of that really showed up and you know, I had a pretty healing experience with the first little romance that I had. That wasn't Ryan, but it was kind of this like in-between guy Cause, like you know, as I started opening like, my heart was healing a little bit and then I, you know, I had a connection with this guy and I told myself I was like, well, I'm never I'm not gonna hide all the stuff that I went through, like it's a part of me and also every time I talk about it it's very healing. So that's another reason why I thank you for having me on the podcast. Yeah, so I was like, so telling my story to this guy I was kind of interested in was also healing in that sense. And number one, he met me with like so much compassion and he had a similar experience like in his early twenties and he was like he was like actually it makes me feel like more relatable to you, whereas I I was, you know cause I was like, oh, thank you for just like holding space for me. He was like, oh, my God, you poor fucking thing, you went through all of that. Like can't believe it. And he also, he's like I love mothers. He's like I think there's something that that happens with like and I'd never heard anybody talk about it like this. He was like I just I think having that type of responsibility over another human being and raising another human being is like shifts, something in people, you know, but like definitely in mothers, and I'd never, I'd never like heard it framed that way. And he was like and I love kids, like kids are magical and like are like these little blessings and you know, I feel like so much of the narrative that I've been around is like kids are gonna ruin your life. You know, make sure you really want them when you want them, make sure you keep taking that birth control until you want them, kind of like this whole narrative. And so that really was healing for me to experience. And you know, even though, like we only had a short time that we were dating, it was such a clearing experience for me of like oh okay, there's dudes out there that I will connect with, and like the thing that landed was like of course, of course, your heart is going to heal and be able to love again, of course, no-transcript. And like, even with Ryan, you know, my heart was like super tender and there was a lot that showed up early on in our relationship with, like, basically at the root of it, me scared that he was going to leave me and and ultimately, that's that's my stuff to heal, and that's another blessing, that all that like having these, these big life events, like my ex-husband leaving me tripped the like big wounding that I've carried my whole life over, people abandoning me yeah, and so it was like, oh, like here's a wound that was here before Jonathan showed up, before Ryan showed up, before anybody showed up, like this, this wound has been within me and so now it's up and it's up and I can. I can choose to take all of this evidence and and cut that deep, that wound deeper. Or I can take this opportunity for this wound that's like freshly activated and really dig into like what are the roots of this and how can I change this story and this belief so that I can actually heal the be the deeper roots of this wound? Yeah, and it's a process.
Speaker 1: 53:44
And I wonder if you would have even been able to acknowledge that if you hadn't been in the psychotic phase before you know.
Speaker 2: 53:53
Yeah, I mean, I think that any experience of me being left or abandoned would have like triggered up like the roots of it. But like I know what you're asking of, like because I had experienced the psychosis before it was like I didn't have to do all that healing around, like the shame and like who am I as? Like this crazy person, because, like there's just so many layers of healing when you experience something so compound like that and complex Like I remember it wasn't until like that, that same February that I met Ryan that I was able to face the fact that like his whole family abandoned me and stopped talking to me when all this went down. And like, mind you, this was a relationship where, like, we got serious right when his brother died and I was like very much involved in their healing process. I was very much around and I was. I was super grateful that they were open to that and they let me in and then, like they just shut me out, like silent treatment style from everybody, and it was like I didn't even have time to like deal with that part of the grief until like a year later. And that's actually something I share with. People is like you and I know and probably everybody listening knows that grief is not a straight line. No, but we also like judge ourselves for like that experience of like two steps forward, three steps back or whatever you know. Yeah, when like the pain around his family abandoning me came up, I actually was like, oh, like this is good, this is good because this has been in me, but I just I had like healing triage and I had some other shit to deal with before, like this part. So actually this being up for me means that I'm actually progressing in my healing journey. Yeah, where, like I could have interpreted that as like oh, my God, I'm never going to get over this thing. There's so many layers like here's a new one that I wasn't even present to, so that's like a reframe that I that I like to share with people because I think that's, I think that's the truth, you know. Yeah, we do have to prioritize.
Speaker 1: 56:24
And it sounds like you had maybe already experienced some fruit of walking through the discomfort and the pain, and so that when you were faced with discomfort, pain and grief, once again you knew that you could walk through it, feel it and it wouldn't kill you, you know, and that there's actually something on the other side of that. Because now, when hardships come up in my life, like it's like OK, like what is the universe trying to show me here, like what is the lesson within this, as you said, and there's more patience, as you talked about, and there's faith that like something's on the other side or that it's part of a bigger purpose. And I, in my experience, it's like, but I won't know that until hindsight and so I just need to be present and hold space for my body and my energy level and surrender to what's going on, because for me, if I try to avoid it or resist it, it causes more friction and more stress in my life and then it makes it more challenging to get through the thing. And, like you have such an asset now because you not only have inner strength and empowerment from knowing you've gone through such hard stuff, but like you have gone into, like the little corners of your soul and done some house cleaning.
Speaker 2: 57:46
Oh yeah, most definitely. I mean, I also one of the things and I'm sure you'll resonate with this which is like, for sure, 2021 was the hardest year of my life Hands down. And like now, when things come up whether it's, you know, argument with my boyfriend, or like if I have to, like do some sort of uncomfortable communication in my business, or whatever, you know, there's life, life, life, life and up I'm like this ain't shit. Yeah, so I tell people I'm like you know, this really showed me what I'm made of.
Speaker 1: 58:35
And no one can ever take it away from you, hell no, because you know it on such a deep level.
Speaker 2: 58:43
Exactly, and I I'm going to say this thing out loud. But so one of the things that I've really struggled with in my life is, you know, I came from great parents that loved me. That you know they're still together and they have, you know they have like supported me emotionally, they have supported me financially, like they have really rooted for me, and I have lots of people in my life who didn't have that or don't have that, and so I've really struggled with this internal like like the guilt of privilege, maybe the guilt of being blessed, like it's dumb, like I actually like I've been working with it in a way of like listen, I don't get to know why some people are born into certain situations and some people aren't. Like what I am concerned with is is what's in front of me, and like steward, stewarding the life that I've been given. But I still you know that's like a part of me and going through something like this, because how it would show up is like I would feel like almost self-censoring over the good goodness in my life, like oh, it's only good because I was set up for it to be good, like almost like it's not my responsibility, I just got lucky, like I've had like a really weird relationship with luck and like anyway. So the other thing that it's kind of given me is like I don't hide my bliss anymore and I actually see it as like. Like I actually now do have every reason to dig myself in the hole and stay in it forever and I didn't do that and that was me and it's very present that like me doing me and doing good in life internally, externally, whatever is, it's like a light. I can be a light to be an example for others. Yeah, it's why I love talking about this, because I remember being in the shit of things and like scouring the internet for anybody else that would talk about their postpartum psychosis experience and I found like one. I think I found one or two episodes in all of podcast land of people who were like first person telling their experience and like on. What I was actually looking for is like tell me that there is another side, tell me your story so I can identify myself and where I'm at in your story and you can tell me how it went or the possibility of how it can go. And so that's why I you know, when I was in my healing process, one of the things that I said to myself or to the spirit, whatever I was, like use me, like use me to, I'm willing. I'm willing to talk about this. I don't have like a job, job where I'm like afraid of being found out that I'm crazy and you know, like I don't have like that's not a part of me and that's not something that's going to hinder me from telling my story. So let's freaking tell my story. So that's why I'm you know, I'm sharing it on podcasts and I'm getting it together to like do keynote speeches and stuff and sharing what's up, because that's what I needed, that's what I needed to hear.
Speaker 1: 1:02:30
It's so false when we think that we're alone in our struggle, when we're in some sort of sound cave that tells us we're the only one feeling the way that we are, and that's like the biggest form of disconnect. That's disconnect from source, that's disconnect from yourself and that forces you to disconnect from others, like your friends and family in your life. And it's so subconscious you don't realize you're doing it and your brain's telling you that you're doomed. Things are hopeless, life is always going to be this way. It's in the cards that it's hard for you and you don't know how to get out. And hearing a story like yours shows people that it doesn't always have to be that way, that there is light on the other side. So, like, hang on and let go. At the same time, like, hang on and keep getting up every single day and then let go of everything you thought you knew before and just reach out and surround yourself by positivity. Like, I love how you talked about how you watched lighthearted shows, because when I was in my darkest time, I just played Eckhart Tolle all the time and I was like, maybe somehow this was like osmosis into my sleep because, like I am so far from feeling enlightened and like I'm in such a dark place but maybe, if the external gets lighter, like something will shift in my mind, because I have no idea how to fix my brain and like, hearing stories like yours gives people hope and that's like what we're here to do as healers, helpers and people who've lived through shit is like to not keep that within us or let it weigh us down, but to like share that it's possible because, like just from your story I know that you've been in, you know, the darkest of times and once you find that other side, that is something that can never be taken away from you and then it just makes every little thing in life so much sweeter.
Speaker 2: 1:04:30
Totally, absolutely. And I will two things. One, two weekends ago I think, ryan and I took the boys up to San Jose to the monster truck show oh, that sounds awesome, the monster jam. And you know, ryan booked the hotel and I was like, you know, whatever, where we staying is like oh, this is where we're staying. We drive up to the hotel and we legit pass the driveway of the San Jose Behavioral Health Center that I was committed to the first time around and I was like whoa, like this is such a like trippy time warp type of experience, because I was like dude, I remember being in my room and being like I just can, I, it's like that, that real like can we just skip to the good part? God, can we just get to the other side of this mess? Because this is like no. And then I'm like on the other side of it and we're like walking into this hotel with the kids doing this like really fun thing and legit, like it was literally right next door, like some of the hotel rooms, like look down on the property. We weren't in any of those hotel rooms, but I was just like, huh, this is like a perfectly little, like cosmic divine nugget for me and to just like think about. You know, it's actually the hotel that my dad and my ex-husband stayed at while I was hospitalized, because they were, like you know, just like ready for me to get out whatever time. And I was just like, wow, like this is, like it's like right in my face and I'm good, like I'm good, I'm, I'm grateful for the life that I have. You know, people ask me. They're like it looks like you're doing well. I'm like I'm so grateful I'm in a really sweet, delicious chapter of my life and I'm so grateful that I'm not like in the muck anymore and I and I and I'm like, especially when it was all really fresh, I was like I need to lock this in, that, like you, I do get to the, I do get to go to the other side, that you do get to get to the other side of things because, you know, I don't know what the future holds, but life, life, life's it up. You know, and like there's predictably going to be hard times in the future, and if I can just remember that I don't know what the other side looks like, but that there's always something for me like the constitution of human spirit and human bodies are programmed toward healing. I like to use the metaphor of like, like when you, when you plant a seed, all you have to do is like give it what it needs and the seed knows what to do. So that's like the same for our healing Like I didn't have to go out and get the healing. I actually had to create the environment that allows the healing, and so that's why I didn't really know it at the time, but like chilling and allowing myself to Netflix and like, yeah, the edge was actually the best thing I could have done for myself, because it was just like on a cellular level, I needed to relax and I needed to like not be operating from that adrenaline and just like let my cell like, let my systems like rebuild. You know, like it knew what to do and it was happening, even though it didn't feel like it was happening. The other thing that showed up for me is because I've been in this like transformational world. When I was in the darkness of things, I was like, oh, all that work for nothing. Like I was like none of these tools work and I was really like. You know, I've spent a lot of time, energy and money in the things that I've been involved with and I was like I'll never be coaching again, like, like I said, it was like all for nothing, like I've just like set myself back like five years or whatever. But I was having a conversation with a friend of mine just recently and I was like you know, I'm only two and a half years out of this major experience and where I'm at in my life right now I have like a beautiful, stable and healthy, loving relationship. My co-parenting relationship with my ex is really groovy, my business is back on its feet. I'm like really just living in this overall state of possibility and positivity and like I'm here to make courageous moves and I feel steady and grounded and all the things I was like where I'm at right now was like 0% predictable from where I was and I am in the support groups of other women who have gone through postpartum psychosis and some of them are two years out from it and still really struggling, and so I'm sitting in a place of like oh, like all that work that I put in still paid off, like it actually was with me that whole time. It was why I was able to create the healing container for myself and have this framework of like, okay, I'm in the depths of things but I trust, and I'm in the depths of things but I'm going to surrender and I'm just going to, like you know, get my like self expectation of who I need to show up for in life down to the bare minimum and, like you know, take it step by step and really listening to where I was at in my healing.
Speaker 1: 1:10:42
Yeah, and that circles back to the feminine of like not forcing things and just letting them arise and like, the more you let go, even, and that's the hardest time to let go. It is not easy to let go when everything feels like it's falling apart, and one quote I love is like, sometimes, when it feels like everything is falling apart, it's actually falling into place and that sounds like exactly what you went through and, yeah, yeah, it just, on the other side, creates a more fulfilling life, like beyond your your wildest dreams, and you can see, if you choose to, how everything before set you up to be able to handle whatever it is you're going through right now, absolutely, oh, absolutely. And when you were talking about, like, the monster trek arena next to the hospital I don't know if you ever think about this, but I think about when I'm in an area where, like, I was in a dark space but I'm like physically visiting that location now in my present life, like I wish that my old self could like watch me walk by and I literally had that.
Speaker 2: 1:12:00
Like that's what I meant by like time warp. I was like in some other dimension. I'm in the hospital, like looking at the window looking at. Like and like I'm walking through the lobby of this hotel with my kids and like watching them, like they're all stoked, they've got, like you know, kid hotel energy and whatever, and I, I, I actually was inspired to like really start this practice of like sending the love back, like sending the love back to the version of myself that was like yeah, I do that too. It's like such a sweet practice, you know.
Speaker 1: 1:12:39
Yes, and then when I'm in a challenging situation in the moment, I'm like, okay, I think my future self is telling me it's all going to work out and it helps the thing go process because it's like, yes, somewhere in the future, it all worked out, so I just need to let go in this moment and like look for the size of what. What to do next?
Speaker 2: 1:13:00
Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally. Yeah, what a freaking. You know the. The other thing that I feel is relevant, because I like talked about the movement stuff is like when I was in the depression, part I I was not moving, I was not dancing, I was not teaching, I even was like anytime I was in my car I was like podcast only Like I was. And when I started to turn the corner, I remember getting to my car and being like, hmm, I feel like listening to some jams and I was like, oh, I think the healing is happening. And then, you know, like I started doing these reels. You can like look back on my Instagram. I started doing these reels of like these dance practices. So I did like 60 seconds of dancing with grief and I just started putting these reels out there of like. You know, one of those reels was like me getting ready to go out and I was like, hey, mama's gonna be okay, you know, and it was just like me like feeling myself and it was just like, dude, I hadn't been in that state like since before my son was born and all this stuff went down, you know. And so I feel like the movement, once that like part of me started reawakening that, leaning into it and like putting music on and dancing with whatever was present dancing with the anger, dancing with the grief, dancing with the joy, dancing with the like oh, going on a first date, it was so. It like helped not only like integrate whatever I was going through, but like really accelerate the healing process at that point, and so it was just a really beautiful thing that, like this modality, the movement and this medicine that I've been working with for a long time, like even though it shut down for a minute, it was able to like once it got back online, it was really something that I could lean on again. You know that's so beautiful. Yeah, and I just encourage everybody, like, no matter what you're going through, put on some music and just move your body.
Speaker 1: 1:15:28
Yes.
Speaker 2: 1:15:30
And like don't, it doesn't matter if you look good, it doesn't matter if you like are doing a hard moves or these moves or those moves, just like literally, even if just you just put on the music and like rock your body, just doing whatever like it's going to benefit you.
Speaker 1: 1:15:47
Yeah, I love that. So how can people find you if they wanna work with?
Speaker 2: 1:15:54
you? Great question. So I like to hang out on Instagram. The best way to get in touch with me is actually on my personal Instagram, which is at shana S-H-A-W-N-A, underscore mox M-O-X. I also have I have a Bombudy Instagram as well that you can check out. It's underscore B-O-M-B-O-O-T-Y and then for more of like the Bombudy stuff, I have bombudycom. You can cruise on there and see what we're about the I do have an instructor training course that's up on there that you can find out the information. And again, that's bombudycom B-O-M-B-O-O-T-Y and just slide into my DMs. I'd love to chat and especially if, like, this episode moved you and that's how you found out about me. I'd love to hear that, because sometimes it just feels like we're talking into the void. So I just like it does a lot for me to get the reflection of, like, how my words impacted people.
Speaker 1: 1:17:09
I love that, yeah, and you have a retreat coming up too, if people want to hang out with you for a couple of days.
Speaker 2: 1:17:14
Yes, yes, I have a really amazing retreat. We are going to Big Sur, California, and the retreat is called Utopia, Unplugged, and it's a women's retreat. I'm partnering with my friend KJ, who's a yogi, and we're really just curating an experience that has us dropping into the healing powers of being in nature, you know, retreating from our life and being with other women and also moving our bodies. So it's going to be like like the programming is very spacious. So you know, we have a couple of things, couple options every day. We're definitely we're going to be there during the during 11, 11, like November 11th is like Saturday night during a retreat. So we're going to do some like witchy shit and like pull cards and like set intentions and probably like dance around a bonfire and I don't know we're just going to like. It's also like a rewilding experience, cause I just think that that inevitably happens when you gather women in nature for a little while. So we do have some spots open for that and there's information on bombudycom about that as well as my Instagram. So, yeah, and Big Sur is just so powerful, like that land is is I don't know if you've have you ever been to Big Sur? Yeah, it's amazing. Yes, yeah, and the the property is like it's a rustic kind of glamping situation but real nice, like cozy, sleepover vibes is kind of how it's. It's going down and we have a, we have a chef and like you're going to be taken care of and just get to like journal and and talk story with everybody and just make meaningful connections and I'm I'm just so looking forward to like everybody who signed up is is like already, like yes, and if that is you, we do have, we do have spots still available for that.
Speaker 1: 1:19:34
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, shana, for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me, yeah, and I hope you have a wonderful day. I look forward to continuing to connect with you.
Speaker 2: 1:19:48
Me too. All right, thank you.